PicnicHealth and Komodo Health Launch Collaboration

Featured at: Medicine to Market: Innovation Showcase

Filming Date: June 10, 2021

Transcript

Frank Dolan
Well, welcome to our next session. If there is something that the life sciences industry is absolutely obsessed about right now, it’s trying to take data and turn it into insights. And it’s amazing some of the new data sources that are coming on line. So we’re to talk a little bit about today in a very special collaboration. I’m really excited to welcome Richard Kho, the Chief Commercial Officer of Picnic Health, to the summit. Richard, welcome.

Richard Kho
Thank you for having me. I’m excited about this conversation.

Frank Dolan
It’s going to be a lot of fun. Just so we can all get to know you, Richard, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what you’re up to right now?

Richard Kho
Sure. I’ve been in the life sciences industry for the last 20 years, working all the way from early drug discovery all the way through commercialization. And most recently, I’ve been working with health care technology companies, providing data and analytics and technology capabilities for the entire spectrum of data needs all the way from clinical development to evidence to medical affairs and to commercial. And so it’s been a rewarding journey and full of ups and downs, of course, as usual.

Richard Kho
But lots of fun and having fun, being able to get drugs to patients, appropriate patients and having impact in health care. So that’s that’s the quick story.

Frank Dolan
That’s a good story. I love it. Fantastic. All right. We’re going to bring up another guest with some really, really cool stories. Komodo Health’s Chief Medical Officer Aswin Chandrakantan. Aswin it’s great to see you. Welcome.

Aswin Chandrakantan
Thank you. Thank you for having me today. Just briefly about my background. For those who don’t know me, I’m the Chief Medical Officer of Komodo Health, Doctor by background, Management Consulting at McKinsey for four years, built in London health care analytics service lines, did a brief stint at Google on the product facing side, joined Komodo Health at its inception to lead our product and data platform development. And more recently, I’ve been focused on partnering with our Lifesciences customers.

Aswin Chandrakantan
So excited to chat today around how we’re using data as a source of good and a source of change in the life sciences industry.

Frank Dolan
Well, what both of you do, I find incredibly exciting when I think both about my background at seven different biopharma companies, but also the countless peers that we have that are part of our community. So I know they’ll be interested in what you guys are about to talk about. Now before we get more into this collaboration announcement that I want to share with everybody between your two organizations. Richard, I’m going to start with you. Can you tell us more about what Picnic Health does?

Richard Kho
Absolutely. So Picnic Health is a health care technology company that works with patients and with Lifesciences companies to advance medicine. So the way we do that is in terms of patients, we have a direct relationship with patients where patients are able to sign up and have us take care of the entire journey of retrieving their medical records and having it all accessible in a very easy to use consumer friendly application. And so imagine you have a chronic illness, for example, and instead of trying to get your records to get a better outcome or to get a second opinion, we take care of all of that.

Richard Kho
And so we have machine learning and processes to be able to do that at scale and provide patients with a service so that they can focus on getting better. Now, on the research side of things or with life sciences, the underlying data, all of the medical records that are coming in are the most complete real world data that you can get, at least from a medical record perspective. And so our partners and customers in life sciences are able to use that data for all sorts of use cases.

Richard Kho
And we can get into some of that a little bit later. But essentially, we work with patients directly. They consent to have their data used for research and for life sciences use cases. And that’s the value that we provide on on the enterprise side of things.

Frank Dolan
That is really, really fantastic. And I love the origin story behind your company. So I encourage everybody to check out Picnic Health, to learn more about that. Now, Komodo Health has been doing some amazing things over the last few years. Aswin, you guys have gotten a lot of press for a lot of different reasons, but I am absolutely fascinated with the potential of the insights that your company is deriving. Can you tell us a little bit about the Komodo Health journey and how you’re, more specifically how you’re helping companies now?

Aswin Chandrakantan
All right. Komodo Health is a health care analytics company. We’ve built the most actionable health care map of the market. It traces the journey of three hundred and twenty five million patients to providers and institutions where they seek care, the therapies and interventions they use to treat their conditions and the outcomes that relate to that. What’s phenomenal about our technology is that we, by understanding the canonical view or a longitudinal view of these patients, we can then get the right patients, the right therapy, at the right time, and the right setting of care, with the right provider.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And so our applications are broad, both across providers and payer systems, as well as partnering with life sciences companies to drive education adoption around clinical trials, around standards of care, as well as adoption of therapies themselves. So today we’re going to be focusing on the life sciences portion, which represents a considerable portion of Komodo’s business and I’m excited to chat about how our solutions are leading to better outcomes for patients.

Frank Dolan
Well, that’s very, very powerful and these are high stakes challenges that organizations face and they need some great solutions between your two companies, Picnic Health and Komodo Health, you recently announced a collaboration. So, Richard, if I can start with you, can you tell us what this collaboration is all about and what for us to expect in the future?

Richard Kho
Yeah, we’re very excited about the collaboration with Komodo Health, given the capabilities that we’re bringing together. And so at Picnic Health, we have, as I said, the most complete medical records for real world data. And this drives a lot of use cases as I said. Imagine having seven plus years of medical records, very complete includes lab results, includes imaging, includes unstructured or narrative notes. So a physician’s notes about a particular patient, what they saw, the reasons for why they might have prescribed a medication or the treatment plan that they set.

Richard Kho
And so that’s all clinical context. Right. And it gives you the ability to look at a patient’s history and really, truly understand what is happening in the real world. Now, while that is very valuable for research and for some of the other use cases, as I mentioned, one of the things that we hear all the time is, hey, it would be great if we could connect that also with claims data or administrative data or other types of data.

Richard Kho
And so Komodo Health has a capability through their platform called Sentinel to be able to do that. And so what we’re offering is the combination of the most complete patient level, real world medical records, combined with the health care map that Komodo Has through Sentinel. And in that environment, our customers are able to not only get the why or the clinical context for a patient’s journey, but then also the what or how the patient was prescribed a particular drug or whether you know what the cost was for that drug, for example.

Richard Kho
And so that opens up a lot of additional use cases around understanding outcomes, understanding health care utilization, understanding pharmaco-economics, etc., that are very powerful when you combine the medical records with the administrative and claims data. As as I’m sure many of our audience members know, I mean, that’s a gold mine, if you will, to be able to do that.

Frank Dolan
Excellent, so Aswin, from the Komodo perspective, why are you guys excited about this collaboration?

Aswin Chandrakantan
I think that this collaboration speaks to the value of combinatorial data assets. And what I mean by that is all too familiar to the industry in the last 30 years, they’re siloed data sets, they operate independently, there’s no way of actually bridging between these datasets; and you end up with a sometimes very deep but narrowed, deep view of the patient and a single care setting. But you don’t actually know their journey or you know their journey, but you can’t go deep on a specific setting of care.

Aswin Chandrakantan
So at Komodo, our belief is that we want to build a three hundred and sixty degree view of the patient’s diagnostic and treatment odyssey, in order to learn from the past. I think one of the biggest challenges to date has been that it’s not that the data doesn’t actually interlink, it’s that there has been a lack of incentive or a fearfulness around bringing data sets together. And so at Komodo our thesis is we have a patient master to which you can, which is like a trunk of a tree and you can attach a lot of metadata objects to it.

Aswin Chandrakantan
You also have the claim data set, which gives you the longitudinal view of that patient. And in working with companies like Picnic, you’re able to add depth to each one of those settings of care, each one of those encounters, understand specific patient demographics or social determinants of health, and you have a canonical and representative view of the population that you’re looking to study. So one of the pieces that I would say that we as an industry have not actualized is we’ve not learned from the journeys of the past.

Aswin Chandrakantan
Be it commercial, be a clinical development, we oftentimes look at it as, OK, this is a unique patient population and now we need to start from scratch in terms of data generation versus like the thesis that Picnic and Komodo shares is, well, why aren’t you learning from the journey of hundreds of millions of patients that have already been through the US health care system and using that to dive, to work on everything from protocol design, to synthetic control arms and virtual registries, to commercial targeting, to indication and label expansion.

Aswin Chandrakantan
So we hope that the journeys of all of these hundreds of millions of patients can be used right here, right now in order to make informed choices in health care.

Frank Dolan
That’s really exciting, and I think I know the answer to this, but Aswin I’m going to ask you just the same. What are the challenges that some life science organizations create for themselves when trying to put their arms around this opportunity?

Aswin Chandrakantan
I mean, to summarize it very quickly, there is certainly a data fragmentation problem. I think that there is also a signal to noise problem. And to stick into this a little bit deeper, there’s a lot of data, but you need to be able to know where you’re looking for data. You need to know what data elements are relevant. You need to know if it’s relevant in all settings of care. You need to know if it’s representative, for you to then say, oh, I can make an informed care choice or I can make a choice around whether or not I want to engage a provider in a specific way.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And today, it’s been extremely challenging A, because of data fragmentation issues, B, because we’ve lacked the algorithms and the understanding of what do we do next with the data that we have, in order to drive activity in the market. And so one of the things that I’ve seen is that when teams like medical affairs, commercial clinical development teams, when they don’t know what to do, they do what they know. And you tend to revert back to the ways in which things have always been done.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And that’s where I feel like Picnic and Komodo, we’re always pushing our clients around, like think differently. Yes. It’s not going to always be easy. Yes. It’s not going to always be necessarily cheap, but it may be the most efficient path and it might be the one that actually drives the greatest patient, best patient outcome.

Richard Kho
And if I could add to that very quickly, what was, what Aswin said with a clear example. So in multiple myeloma, as many of you who have worked in that space know, there are probably 20 different combinations of therapies that are available. And it depends, of course, on patient status, their situation, and, of course, the lines of their therapy differ based on whether their transplant eligible or not. I mean, there are so many things that go into this.

Richard Kho
And so if you’re a pharma company, a team that’s working on understanding outcomes, for example, for multiple myeloma patients, to Aswin’s point about fragmentation, you might be getting some data from Medicare and it’s really delayed and old, or you might be getting some available claims data. You might be getting, of course, your own clinical trial or investigator initiated studies data. You may be getting or even deploying more traditional ways of looking at this, which is running an observational study or a site based study at huge cost, obviously.

Richard Kho
And so if you think about the complexity of multiple myeloma and, of course, many other diseases out there, to be able to see with hundreds or thousands of patients, how many are on which regimen and what were all of the comorbidities, and what were all of the patient characteristics. And then what were the outcomes on top of that? And to be able to do that in a timely way using the deepest and best data available, that’s the type of thing that is possible, for example, using Picnic Health combined with Komodo’s capability.

Richard Kho
So I just wanted to share a real example of the types of fragmentation that would be challenging and then how that’s solved by what we’re doing together.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And just to build on top of the multiple myeloma example, it’s interesting. Just a few weeks ago, we were working with a top 20 life sciences client and we were looking at Emory and they’d selected a very specific investigator. And it turned out that that investigator, yes, they were very well known from the conference circuits and publications. They weren’t actually seeing the most amount of patients, it was actually a provider in the next building that was actually taking care of the majority of those patients.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And so the second piece was that there was almost three times as many patients in the entire Emory system that had been, not been screened for a particular trial. And on top of that, there were dozens of patients within a hundred mile vicinity of Emory that were completely kind of like blind to, hey, there’s a clinical trial going on that may be a lifesaving therapy for me. And so when you combine Komodo and Picnic together, you get to a world in which you get to a very specific patient cohort in a very specific part of their journey that you can say, yes, they’re screening eligible, or I want to study this population in more detail.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And those types of insights would not be possible without both data and analytics and RWE and the timeliness of the data so that you can time your market activities, you can time your studies, too, and you can focus them on specific populations that you’re looking to learn.

Frank Dolan
So with opportunity, certainly when you’re sitting inside the biopharma boardroom, you have to wonder about some of the risks. So I wanted to talk to you, Richard, very quickly. With this incredible patient data that you have access to, how do science executives feel the comfort and that they’re not going to be exposed to things that they shouldn’t be exposed to in this highly regulated environment?

Richard Kho
Yeah, this is highly topical and a great question, Frank. So recently there’s been a lot of effort, especially from a regulatory perspective, to remove the blocking of sharing of patient information. And so this is for the patient’s benefit and for providers, obviously. And so there’s this question generally as we combine more and more patient data, like how do we ensure security, how do we ensure privacy? And, of course, how do we ensure that all of us are working within guidelines and principles of privacy?

Richard Kho
Right. And so the beauty of our approach at Picnic Health is that we work directly with patients. They sign a hipaa consent that includes their request for Picnic health to retrieve data on their behalf, including not only medical records, but other types of data about them that is useful for their care. So we’re literally doing this for their care, right, as they get the app on Picnic Health. And then second, they also are given a full informed consent under IRB.

Richard Kho
So those of you that are familiar with more of the clinical development side of things, we have an independent review board that goes through all of our use cases and approves them. And then, as I said, the informed consent form is provided to the patient. And so the patient is fully aware and we provide education about this as well. It’s not like one of those things where you see a two hundred page document and somewhere embedded in there is something about privacy or security.

Richard Kho
This is fairly straightforward. We provide education. We even talk to patients on the phone or exchange emails to provide guidance. And then once they sign, they are fully aware of what they’re signing and the benefits that they get as part of working with Picnic Health. And so that’s on the patient side. And all of that, of course, is very important. And then as we work with our pharma and Life sciences customers and partners, we ensure security and privacy through the identification it’s certified by third party bio-statistician.

Richard Kho
And so privacy and security is at the center of everything that we do. And the fact that we work directly with patients that have signed these consents and are aware is a major differentiator in terms of making sure that everything is private and abiding by all the compliance and regulatory requirements.

Frank Dolan
OK, so we’ve got the the safety and security stuff out of the way. Now, let’s go back to opportunity. So with Komodo Health, Aswin, help us explore some of the possibilities. I know we went a little bit down the path with multiple myeloma. But when you think about the entirety of this health care data map that you all are building, are there other therapeutic areas that either are opportunistic, or maybe not perfect for a Komodo Health engagement?

Aswin Chandrakantan
Great question, Komodo is therapy area agnostic, and the beauty of that is that we trace the journey of three hundred and twenty five million US patients fully identified. And what’s nice about that is that it allows you to sample or to understand specific patient cohorts that you’re looking to study. So we have engagement’s; everything from diabetes to ovarian cancer, to multiple myeloma, to ultra rare diseases. And everything for us is scalable and generalizable in that you select the populations that you want to study based on either predictive or specific business rules or algorithms.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And then you’re able to pull those into the environment or into software and understand the provider and institution systems that surround them. And so I think for us, when we really look at the opportunities within life sciences, it’s everything from commercial teams being able to effectively have the right conversation, at the right time, with the right providers and institutions. It’s also on the clinical development side, helping with everything from feasibility site selection, to real time patient recruitment. And it’s all therapy area agnostic.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And what’s really nice there is that every single company, every single team thinks about their therapy area or their indications slightly differently. They think about their competitive drug basket differently, they think about the scientific and key word terms differently. And we are able to configure our analytics software to be suited, to be particular to our clients needs, their questions and their workflows.

Frank Dolan
Thank you for that, I appreciate that. There’s a lot of opportunity here for brands and considering the environment that we’re in. One thing that we hear from our biopharma community for sure, especially for those that have brands that are in market right now, is that Q1; and I think most analysts have described it this way, was a very difficult quarter, with many teams talking about how their commercialization efforts were still somewhat hampered by things going on with the pandemic and beyond.

Frank Dolan
The other challenge that has been noted quite a bit in affecting Q1 earnings, has been the patient flow and patients who are being missed. They’re either not showing up, but we also are all talking about potentially misdiagnosis and what have you. So Aswin building on that, how is Komodo Health leveraging this data to help find patients in the system, especially for those of us who have brands where patients are just generally very, very hard to find?

Aswin Chandrakantan
Great question. I think what we as an industry have traditionally overlooked is we have thought about, you know, patients as like their journey begins when the diagnosis begins; under recognizing the entire diagnostic odyssey to get there. And so I think, to your point, Frank, earlier diagnosis, earlier testing leads to earlier treatment and leads to better outcomes. And so we have built a lot of machinery at Komodo that allows us to take sample patients, sample difficult to find patients and build lookalike models to be able to essentially pull out those needle from the haystack.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And I think that we’re one of the rare companies out there where in the context of data science, you need to do a proper feature selection and you need to make sure you have the full patient journey so that you can actually identify if there’s a misdiagnosis. When you’re seeing a single patient, in a single setting of care, it’s really hard for you to say if that’s a misdiagnosis or an underdiagnosis or late diagnosis, because you know nothing else about their entire care journey.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And so we pride ourselves on the fact that we’re patient centric, focused on the longitudinal journey of that patient, using that in order to say, hey, does this patient look alike with all the patients that ended up as being a particular cancer or is there a differential diagnosis that’s being missed here? And can I train an algorithm then that allows life sciences companies in near real time to go engage providers and say, hey, look, you know, there there’s a particular rare disease.

Aswin Chandrakantan
Here’s the phenotype of the patient that you might be looking for. You should consider testing if you have any of these phenotypic patients. And, you know, when you have that conversation, within a few hours, to a few days of of that provider seeing that potentially misdiagnosed patient, it drives that pattern recognition that’s needed in order to bend the arc. And we’ve got, we’ve seen in rare diseases a compression from like 15 years of post system onset, this diagnostic odyssey, being compressed into three years just through the use of data, software and algorithms.

Frank Dolan
That is powerful. And you mentioned the term patient centric at one point. I want to build on that with you, Richard. When we think about patients and let’s face it, let’s, hopefully it’s only for minimal reasons, but at some point we are all patients. That being said, when we are or we know someone that in fact isn’t diagnosed, or if they’re misdiagnosed, that’s a heck of a challenge and a heck of a journey for that individual; and certainly with their loved ones. Since patients are essentially raising their hand to be a part of what you’re doing at Picnic Health, what are some of the benefits that patients may have, especially for those who may or may not know that they’re on a medical journey?

Richard Kho
Yeah, it’s the reason why we exist at Picnic Health is to help patients improve their situation. Just to give you one quick example, we do have hundreds of sickle cell disease patients on our platform who use our service. And if you think about sickle cell disease, it’s primarily a disease of minorities. And so African-Americans in particular. And when you have sickle cell disease, you may have a pain crisis, for example, vaso occlusive crisis. And what happens is the patient will try to treat it at home, but typically it leads to severe enough pain that they need to go to the E.R. Now, when they present to the E.R. asking for treatment of pain, they’re not always believed.

Richard Kho
And this is the reality of the disparities of care that we experience today. Right. And so we have patients who literally pull up their Picnick Health timeline on their phones, proving that they have sickle cell disease. And here’s the history of what’s happened to that individual. And then they’re able to get treatment right away. And so that’s just one example. But the fact that you’re able to have all of your medical records in an easy to digest format, all in one place, is something that is extremely valuable across many disease areas, obviously.

Richard Kho
So just one example there. But many others like that, especially in places where there is under-diagnosis or misdiagnosis; things that patients can use to be able to go to another specialist and get a second opinion, for example.

Frank Dolan
That is exciting stuff. So with both of you that I’ve gotten to know very well over the years between your careers, as well as the unique positions you’re in now; in viewing, observing and working with a lot of different life science companies. I know you guys have an opinion about the opportunities for the industry in the future.

Frank Dolan
So by putting on that kind of magician’s hat and trying to predict the future, what are you really excited about when it comes to the impact the life science industry generally can have right now? Richard, I’ll start with you.

Richard Kho
Sure. And hopefully I don’t steal Aswin’s answer because we, I think, do have some similar things that we’re excited about. You think about where we are today in terms of A.I. and machine learning and where we’re headed. There’s massive opportunity there, of course, as even Aswin highlighted in terms of some of the predictive capabilities for finding patients or diagnosing patients. But when you combine that with where we are today and where we’re headed in terms of our ability to work within biology. So thinking about biology as code, like software, with advances in CRISPR, with advances in mRNA. And in fact, I was listening to the Moderna CEO talk about how they built their mRNA vaccine literally in a day, or two days.

Richard Kho
And just that’s just mind boggling. Right. And so that’s a combination of our ability to work with genetics as well as genomics and then, of course, A.I. and M.L. And so the next 10, 20 years, I believe, are going to be massive in terms of the types of advances we’ll have in medicine because of the combination of biology and A.I. And I think for all of us in this realm that may be attending today or watching this later, you know, the downstream impact of all of that is that there will be new ways of thinking about data and analytics and how we apply that to not only discovery and development, but also for commercialization.

Richard Kho
And so I would say just stay on top of that and get ahead of it and and learn as much as you can in terms of how these advances are going to impact all of our, our work.

Frank Dolan
That’s great as well. Aswin, let’s look into the future. What are your thoughts?

Aswin Chandrakantan
Richard and I certainly share the aspiration around targeted therapeutics, as well as A.I. and machine learning. I think that I kind of segregated it into two buckets, which is like what is the promise of tomorrow? And what of the technologies and the things that we should be doing today based on what we already have? And so I think that, when I think about the US health care system; it’s not that the like we don’t have the technologies, the processes, the people, the stakeholders to make patients have the best outcome.

Aswin Chandrakantan
It’s just that it’s reserved for the few. And so as a consequence, I think a lot about diversity and inclusion. And so in Richard’s case, he just highlighted the vaso occlusive crisis for sickle cell patients. Like why is it that you have an underrepresented population that has to fight to get pain medications; and whether or not believed to be to have a specific disease? And those are the types of inequities that we need to be able to solve as an industry.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And so it can be simple things like, you know, Komodo, we think a lot around disparities of care and like why is care different on the other side of the train tracks. Why is it that there are certain, there’s oversampling of certain populations in clinical trials, but under sampling in others? And so by having visibility to this is where the patient disease burden is, it allows you to not, no longer ignore, for example, the south side of Chicago when you have a diabetes trial.

Aswin Chandrakantan
It also gives you that pinpoint accuracy to say these are patients that are screening eligible; and we need to understand how this therapeutic modality impacts them and not oversample other populations. So I think there’s a lot of work we can do there as an industry. And it’s, a lot of it’s in terms of data that’s going to help democratize and solve some of those health inequalities. The second piece that I also think is a great normalizer is something simple. It’s actually what we’re doing now, which is like Zoom and all of these sort of telehealth digital technologies.

Aswin Chandrakantan
When I think digital, I think democratization, because it provides a much faster outreach to the patient populations and the providers and institutions where they’re seeking care. And so, do we really need as an industry when talking about clinical trials, does this patient really need to come in for to get this battery of tests done; or should we just do a virtual visit? And so Covid has actually forced the industry into the future on a lot of fronts, and especially in the context of digital and in terms of telehealth.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And we need to make sure that we continue that momentum to solve these inequalities, in order for us to bring the 60 percent of the population that’s not getting the best possible outcomes to bring them along for the ride. So I’m excited about everything that’s in the future in terms of new technologies and new capabilities. And I’m excited about the penetration of existing capabilities to solve some of the most pressing health care issues today.

Frank Dolan
Well, I certainly get excited about the future. And as someone who’s been a part of several brands, we want to minimize that gap between the brand’s potential and what’s actually happening, the patients that we’re, in fact, serving, and to get to this incredible future that you both described. There’s a lot of opportunity to do things a bit different and certainly with some new partners. So, gentlemen, we’ve got a few questions. Do you have time for us to run through a few of them?

Richard Kho
Yes.

Aswin Chandrakantan
Absolutely.

Frank Dolan
All right. All right. So we’ve got a couple of questions thematically here about the collaboration. And so what I’m going to do is I’m going to actually take several and I’m going to put them in two buckets because I think this is the best way to handle this. And so around the collaboration, the question is, how is this collaboration beneficial to helping Pharma companies that are struggling with trial delays? So I guess maybe, helping with clinical trials.

Frank Dolan
I’ll ask you guys volunteer.

Richard Kho
I’ll, I’ll jump in. So one of the things that we’ve been working on together is the ability to look at not only where the patients are, which is driven largely by Komodo Health’s health care map, obviously; but also what are the medical histories of these patients. So if you are needing to screen patients in or out, it’s possible to do that using real world data instead of having a patient go visit a site and actually get worked up.

Richard Kho
Right. And so that’s a very simple example in terms of the data. Now executing that is a little more complex obviously and there’s workflow involved in that. But that’s a capability that when you combine what we are doing together, enables teams to then say, OK, well, for this trial, for example, and let’s say IBD, let’s say it’s Crohn’s disease; we need patients of a certain age with a certain stage of disease, etc.

Richard Kho
And those types of things are possible to understand using real world data. And so that’s a clear example of being able to support a clinical team there.

Aswin Chandrakantan
To add on to what Richard said, there’s three key places where the combined offering accelerates trials. First is when you’re actually designing the protocol to make sure that the protocol is something that is feasible and has a targetable population. And this is done somewhere where oftentimes is, as the industry becomes more indication specific, it becomes harder and harder to parse out what is the patient population that I’m screening out for a particular protocol. And Komodo plus Picnic has been able to address that very effectively.

Aswin Chandrakantan
Second is during the trial itself. If you’re if you actually have a Komodo plus Picnic capability running, you’re basically getting a live stream of patients in the funnel that are potentially trial eligible. And the third is, I like to think about what is the parts of the trial that you shouldn’t have done. And so if you move into the world where you’re thinking about external control arms, synthetic control arms, virtual registries, indication expansions or phase four trials; you’re like, well, if I could have run this retros, this part on a retrospective data that I only need half the number of patients and therefore my costs are reduced, the number of, the number of patients I need is reduced and my throughput is increased.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And so I think that you get to a world in which you’re, it’s better for the patient because frankly, no patient ever wants to get randomized to the control arm. It’s like, well, I have cancer, but I’m going to get a placebo pill because there’s a high mortality disease. So it’s good for patients in the context of these of creating these virtual registries and external control arms. It’s also great for life sciences. So these are like the three big places where I see that Picnic and Komodo combined are going to accelerate trials and also prevent trial delays.

Richard Kho
And just to build on on top of that, very quickly, there’s a couple of situations right now where the combined Komodo and Picnic capability is being used as Insight’s as part of regulatory discussions. And so to Aswin’s points, to be able to have real world data and real world evidence and go into a meeting with the FDA to discuss the design of a trial, a pivotal trial, and then to be able to say it’s possible to get to the endpoints that we need with fewer patients because it’s supplemented by regulatory grade data.

Richard Kho
That is a very powerful use case. And that’s something that for clinical development teams in particular, this type of capability enables. And so we’re really excited about that part.

Frank Dolan
Excellent. So the second theme of question around the collaboration is, are there specific departments within a biopharma organization that you would work most closely with?

Aswin Chandrakantan
For me to just answer, answer simply RWA and HOR teams, we work a lot with commercial teams and clinical development organizations and depending on where the RWA team sits, with medical affairs as well. Those are kind of the four big limbs or verticals within life sciences. Richard, anything to add to that?

Richard Kho
No, I mean, that’s the same set of folks that we work with. I mean, I’ll throw in epidemiology as well, bio stats teams, other teams that are involved in analysis of real world data, obviously. So those are other teams that are involved, but clinical development to real world evidence, to medical affairs and then all the way to commercial. These are all teams that we love to work with.

Frank Dolan
Excellent. So most of our audience tends to be biopharma and med-tech executives. I’m believing that perhaps we have some folks from some medical organizations that are asking this question; which is, would your companies individually or through this collaboration be interested or ever work with research driven medical organizations or even patient advocacy organizations?

Aswin Chandrakantan
Great question. The short answer is yes, and we’re already doing so. So Komodo has a number of announced partnerships, everything from the Cholangiocarcinoma Foundation to PSC partners. We have a number of patient advocacy organizations and research groups that we’re already working with. And Richard, I would love for you to speak about that one.

Richard Kho
Yeah. So we we work, I described Picnic Health in terms of the patient product as well as, of course, research. And so on the patient side of things, we work with advocacy organizations where we provide the patient product or the application as a benefit to patients. And so it’s more efficient for us to work with advocacy organizations that then provide the opportunity to the patients as opposed to us going out to each individual patient, although we do that as well through our digital and social channels.

Richard Kho
But, so that’s how we work with advocacy organizations primarily. We also work with foundations that research foundations that are interested in solving disease problems. And so we’re supplying real world evidence and data for research purposes there. And then lastly, working with large academic centers as well on research problems. And so this real world data is not just for life sciences. I mean, there’s investigators and and academic researchers who are very interested in the data. And so what’s unique there is that they have their own data from their own centers on these patients.

Richard Kho
But a lot of times what they’re missing is all of the data around where else the patient has been. So if the patient is not on the same EMR system or this patient is not able to get access to those other records, you don’t have a complete picture. And so, as we work with top research organizations, I can name Harvard as an example, which is publicized, that we have the ability to provide a deeper understanding of the real world data that’s coming from the encounters that these patients have with health care.

Frank Dolan
Excellent. Well, on that note, I’ll ask each of you for both closing comments as well as let us know how we can keep in touch with you, with what your organizations are doing. So, Richard, I’ll start with you.

Richard Kho
Yeah. This has been an amazing opportunity to talk a little bit about both the company as well as the partnership with Komodo Health. And we’re really excited about where we’ve come so far and the opportunity ahead of us in terms of how we use patient centric data or patient consented data and what we do. And so thank you very much for this and for the continued support from both organizations here. And to stay in touch with us, of course, go to our website, PicnicHealth.com, and you can also reach out to me directly via LinkedIn.

Richard Kho
And I should be pretty easy to find.

Frank Dolan
Sounds great. Aswin, take it away.

Aswin Chandrakantan
Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity. I’ve always loved the robust discussion. I oftentimes learn a lot of new things, both from Frank as well as from Richard. I would say that as a closing comment. I think that there’s so much untapped value in terms of all the journeys of hundreds of millions of patients in the US. And I would just encourage everyone to think a little bit around how do we bring that data to bear for your organizations today, right here, right now, because those capabilities exist.

Aswin Chandrakantan
The second piece that I would also push for is, technology is complementary to a lot of the initiatives and works that your team is already doing. And it can be a great enabler across R&D, commercial and medical affairs. And I think Covid has already very much proved to us that, you know, we need to drive technology, adoption and education. We need to drive better standards of care, and we need to complement traditional ways of working together with some of the newest innovations.

Aswin Chandrakantan
And so appreciate the dialog today, appreciate the continued support of all the hundred and fifty plus health care companies that Komodo already works with. And thank you to Frank and the team for putting together this event.

Frank Dolan
Well, it’s absolutely our pleasure. And I think something that all of our organizations and pharma, biotech, medtech, Picnic Health, Komodo Health, Arsenal all have aligned is that we want the best thing for patients. So if we’re going to move closer towards those goals of truly serving them, I think it’s really important to understand the innovations that could be a part of narrowing that gap between potential and the actual value that we deliver. So, Richard, thanks for being here, Aswin, it’s always a pleasure; and for the entire audience on behalf of Aswin and Richard and myself here, thank you for spending some time with us.

Frank Dolan
We appreciate it. We’ll see you all in the next session. Thanks, everybody.

Richard Kho
Thank you

 

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